My only Apple computer was a G3 Powermac, which I got used from the resale store at the University I used to work at, which means I got it real cheap.

Compared to the boring and clunky Windows XP machine I had, I loved the design of the hardware and the software. I loved that to access the mobo to upgrade the RAM I just had to lift up a latch on the side of the case (my Modern case isn’t even as easy as that to get into). I liked the colors and the ‘handles’ that made moving the tower around easy if you needed to. I had a very tacky aesthetic back in the day where if something was made of clear blue plastic I would buy it, so that Mac fit right in with my ‘decor’ lol

Compared to XP the UI was a lot more sleek and modern imo, the dock was a game changer because I rarely used more than a handful of programs so having them always available was cool. Plus my simple minded ass was impressed by the animations. The “hot corners” were super useful. as was resizing the windows by dragging them to the edges of the screen. The overall look was just much more nice to look at. I think it was 10.3 Panther if I recall correctly.

At the time I was just starting to learn about Free and Open Source software, so I thought the fact that they based OS X on Unix was pretty cool. The first DE I ever installed was on that Mac (LXDE?) and the first FOSS programs I installed was on there, VLC and The GIMP I believe. I also loved how easy it was to install programs. You would just download the file and drag it into a folder called ‘Apps’, and to uninstall you just deleted or moved the file out of there. Compared to the ‘install wizards’ and the ‘add/remove’ control panel on Windows, it felt like actual wizardry.

I think more than anything the geek in me just liked learning a new set of skills and a different way of doing things, but overall I loved the experience. When they announced the iPhone I was excited. I was actually one of those people who carried around a mobile phone, MP3 player and Digital Camera at the same time. So the thought of just having to carry around 1 device to do all those things was like a dream come true. Then I heard about the price and was less excited (it was almost $1000 in today’s money adjusted for inflation). I was a working class stiff after all. Then I found out about the lack of apps and thought that was weird. But still I was pretty much on board.

I got a iPod Touch to replace my Nano and kept my flip phone. That’s when I realized that I had to jailbreak it to fully unlock the functionality. That’s where they finally lost me. I had been planning on buying another Mac but I figured if they were willing to lock down their phones like that- it was only a matter of time before they did the same thing with their computers.

It ended up being a good decision because on my next (Windows Vista) PC I learned to install Linux and I could do some really tacky things with the UI then! lol. Compiz anyone :D

All this to say I think Apple was actually in fairly decent (if still too expensive) place prior to the iPhone, but their whole ‘walled garden’ approach to computing just wasn’t my bag at all.

This almost makes me wish I still used Apple products so that I could boycott them.

Ive been Apple free for 20 years though.

I wasn’t asking for guidance, I’m just pointing out that these are all things that reduce usability.

I wasn’t giving you guidance, I was just pointing out that you are making it sound like some insane struggle to get and install programs on Linux. Usually it’s even more straightforward than in windows, especially if you already know what you are doing.

I’m just pointing out that these are all things that reduce usability.

Those are all examples of things that increase usability. Having multiple different ways to install a piece of software is only a problem if you allow choice paralysis to consume you. Right now you know just enough to know those options exist, but not their purpose or function. Literally less than 1/2 hour of googling would answer all of those questions, and with the benefit that you now better understand the useful functionality of your operating system. You only have to spend that 1/2 hour one time, and for the rest of your life you wouldn’t stress out over a flatpak vs a binary, or whatever. And again, for a new user they are probably best served by just opening the app store and hitting install. Easy, breezy, beautiful.

While you’re right that some of these issues also exist on the windows side, it’s not as prolific.

That’s just not true. Linux has had app stores for decades. Windows didn’t. Until recently, if you needed an app for Windows you had to trust ‘random online sites’ to get software. Now that Windows has it’s own app store, you can use both ways install apps in Windows- no different than in Linux.

I think that a lot of technical people forget that the average user is quick to give up and has a knack for breaking things. Many of the restrictive elements in Mac and Windows are to protect the average user, usually to the bane of the super user.

I just remember being a new Windows user and having to learn what a .dll and a .exe was. What the registry was, what installer ‘wizards’ were and how to properly use them, how to find the place in the control panel where you uninstall programs, how to update my system, what ‘fragmentation’ meant how how to solve it, how to not get viruses and how to remove them if you did, how the file system was set up and how to navigate it- There was a lot of stuff to learn, and you either learned it or you weren’t able to properly use your system. Same when I briefly switched to OS X.

It’s no different in Linux. People just don’t want to take the time to learn how things are done in Linux. The reality is it’s really not that hard to get up and running in Linux at all. And while you can always go deeper and learn more- its typically not necessary nowadays. I put Linux on my moms old computer when she was in her 70’s. She was not a techie person at all (extreme understatement). It took about 5 minutes max to get her up to speed. It was never an issue.

Many of the restrictive elements in Mac and Windows are to protect the average user

It’s simply a matter of readjusting your mindset. If you are about to do a simple and straightforward task that you already know how to do, chances are in Linux there are 10 other ways to accomplish the same thing- but you are in no way forced to know what they are or how to do them. If you are curious and want to know- that’s great. Take a little bit of time and learn them. If not- don’t.

Choice is good.

I’m a technical person and even I struggle with what/how the hell I’m supposed to even install applications on Linux:

On my distro it’s 1) Open App Store 2) Search for Software 3) hit “install”.

Should I download the binaries? Should I use snap/flatpak/etc?

That’s a matter of personal preference, but once you understand the difference, which is really not that complex, then the choice should be practically automatic.

If I do one vs the other which is more up to date?

You can check the version number.

If I can’t find it in the software store can I trust random online sites?

You have the same issue in Windows.

I think if you are paying to have a worse experience with a ICE car, and someone points out you can get a nice electric car for free and you think they are just being an annoying asshole- that’s an issue right there.

Sure, some people need dump trucks for work. If you don’t though I think switching to an EV is sensible.

I’m done talking to you doofus. I hope you get help for whatever is wrong with you.

A. I clarified to find me one of the same size as a 1990 model.

Good for you.

B. Isnt this exactly the same argument your making?

No, you don’t carry Ford Rangers around in your pocket all the time making them easy vectors to spy on people.

The bagtery tech was not there to allow thinner phones without comprismising capacity.

And if people really gave a fuck about thinner phones they would have accepted smaller “bagtery’s” to get them. Clearly capacity was more important. So I guess people weren’t chomping at the bit to get thinner phones now were they?

But people also want smaller phones.

Phones have been getting bigger not smaller.

The new ranger is just a tiny bit smaller than the f150 It absolutely is not the same or even close to the size of ranger 20 years ago.

You said you couldn’t buy a small truck, not that you couldn’t buy a truck the same size as 20 years ago.

Sure… if there was enough demand for replaceable batteries… but there is not. Basically the vast market is content with the cheaper option.

There was a demand, we weren’t given a choice. I’m not sure how this so hard for you to grasp.

Again… smaller battery smaller capacity…

Again…Just making the batteries non replaceable makes them able to be thinner, and they always had that ability. They also had the ability to put in smaller batteries if everyone was clamoring for super thin phones. They just weren’t.

I said smaller battery and connecters allowed for thinner phones.

Just making the batteries non replaceable makes them able to be thinner, and they always had that ability. They also had the ability to put in smaller batteries if everyone was clamoring for super thin phones. They just weren’t.

And mass production is cheaper than low production.

True

So if all phones are designed the same, then the factories can be tooled all the same accross all models.

Uh, no. That would only be true if all models of phone from the same factory were made exactly the same way with the exact same machines. That’s not the case. They make different models of phone. They could easily make one model with a user replaceable battery and a different model without one.

But you said they exist… it should be easy. Unless… you were talking out of your ass again.

They do exist, and it was super easy. They still make Ford Rangers. Try google, it’s the first thing that pops up when you type in New Ford Ranger. I guess you were talking out your ass again.

thinner phone requires a smaller battery. Smaller battery is smaller capacity.

Yes, smaller batteries of the same type generally have lower capacity. Very good. That’s not what we were talking about though is it? YOU said that having a non-replaceable battery allowed them to make phones thinner. That is what they had the ability to do for the decade that they were still making phones with replaceable batteries.

Noone asked for phones to copy the iphone

Peter Noone, from Hermans Hermits? Fun trivia. You know who else asked for it, everyone else.

So close to getting it…

Oh, you think you are close to getting it? Well maybe I can help you the rest of the way. If School Text Book manufacturers who were forced to come up with a dumber version of their product to fit the requirements of one large market found it was cheaper just to sell everyone the dumb version instead of making two different versions, it follows that Phone Manufacturers would likewise find it cheaper to sell the dumber version of phones to everyone if one large market required them to make phones dumber. Do you get it now? I can try to dumb it down even more for you if you need me to.

Show one new model that is the same size of a 1990 ford ranger.

The still sell Ford Rangers I’m pretty sure. I’m going to let you do your own Truck shopping.

A. They did not have the ability because doing so would reduced battery capacity because the tech is battery still maturing.

That makes zero sense. How the phone is connected to the battery has no bearing on capacity.

B. Apparently people are asking because people are still buying. Just because me and you arent asking doesnt mean the greater market isnt.

That’s silly. They removed the ability, they didn’t give people a choice. No one was asking, no one chose this.

A. That would mean the entire world is in on the conspiracy.

How would it mean that? The U.S. is a Huge market, China is a huge market It would only take one or two. Plus countries all around the world spy on their own citizens, so it ‘benefits’ their governments even if they weren’t directly responsible. Did you know that in the U.S. Texas makes all of our school textbooks worse because it’s easier just to print the stupid textbooks than print separate ones for just Texas because Texas is such a big market. This is not a conspiracy theory, you can look it up if you are interested.

B. I cant buy a small truck in america.

You can buy small trucks in America. What are you talking about?

Does that mean there is a grand conspiracy?

You are the one that keeps calling this a ‘grand conspiracy’. There are only a handful of phone manufactures, it wouldn’t be that difficult to get them all to agree to something, especially if they were rewarded in some way for it. Corporations only care about money.

You know its a really easy to prove against, right?

Why would I need to prove it? You didn’t read any of the articles I linked to did you? The fact that they have the ability to do this is not even a question. The government admitted that it was able to do this all the way back in 2006.

Just have some basic radio spectrograph to detect any signals coming from a turned off phone.

The claim isn’t that the FBI/NSA/CIA/ICE whoever is doing this constantly to everybody, it’s that they have the capability to do this to anybody, which again isn’t even a question. I’m not really worried about being spied on personally (yet) and even if I were I’d just leave my phone at home or put it in a Faraday bag, I’m not going to carry around a ‘basic radio spectrograph’ and whip it out every time I want to have a private conversation.

In reality, the correlation is phones continue to get thinner

Lol, that’s like saying I lost weight because I bought smaller pants. Yeah, designers are able to make phones thinner when they are able to design around non-replaceable batteries. Was anyone asking for thinner phones? They had the ability to make thinner phones by disallowing replaceable batteries for a decade and did not.

Were consumers demanding that phone manufactures make phones worse by removing useful features like replaceable batteries or headphone jacks- or was these anti-features foisted upon us?

If it had been just some manufactures that switched, or if those manufacturers that did switch had offered the option of different models, some with replaceable batteries and some without, and then consumers chose the worse phones- I might not be as convinced.

As it is now with 99.9% of all phones you can buy not even giving you the option, I’m not buying it.

It’s not like this is some crazy off the wall theory. I’m not saying the Earth is flat or we didn’t land on the moon. We know that the government is using our cell phones to track us, we know they have the capabilities to do so. The only question is did governments (I guarantee it’s not just the U.S) make deals with/ask/or put pressure on manufactures to incentivize the switch. That’s not really far fetched at all.

Non replaceable batteries benefit android manufacturers as it simplifies manufacturing. And they dont care about repairs post warranty… thats just incentive to buy another one.

That was true from 2006-2016 as well, but most Android manufacturers still offered user replaceable batteries. If you believe that there is no correlation- that’s fine. I don’t buy it though, the timing is just too perfect for it to be a coincidence.

You can believe what you want. I didn’t hear it from a conspiracy theorist, I heard it from Edward Snowden, and this was actually old news when he mentioned it, but his revelation on national TV made it even more widely known. “Coincidentally” it was right around the time Snowden blew the whistle that Android manufacturers started switching over to non-replaceable batteries.

Yes Apple are greedy fucks and it’s obvious that forcing iPhone users to get their phones repaired by a ‘genius’ was a part of their strategy from the beginning. But Android manufacturers who didn’t have a repair store they could force their users to use and wouldn’t benefit from that were happy to continue letting users replace their own batteries, because it was a legitimate benefit for the consumer and way to differentiate themselves from Apple.

I’m sure that phone manufactures save a few pennies by forcing users to either buy a new phone or pay an expensive repair bill, but I’m pretty sure that isn’t the only reason it’s done.

Edit: Even if you ignore their ability to wiretap you when your phone is ‘powered off’, the fact remains that the government can and does track you by you cell phone and removing the battery is a great way to stop that.

Of course, it’s not the only way- If you feel like you don’t want to be tracked for any reason a Faraday bag is a decent option. It makes your phone less useful, but so would removing the battery.

It’s weird that this was something that Microsoft would have to admit, considering “The CLOUD Act” has made this mandatory for all US based companies anywhere they operate in the world. This has been a law since 2018.

It’s because the U.S. Government can make it seem as if your phone is powered down, but it’s actually still on and spying on you, sending data to whatever alphabet agency wants it. Removing the battery is the only defense against that attack, so they ‘encouraged’ manufacturers to stop allowing it.

My Moto G Power has it, super useful feature.

I use cards, I don’t even have NFC on my phone, but it is nice to be able to check my bank account, lock/unlock the card, deposit checks, etc.

I may be able to do most of that on the website, idk. Guess I’m probably going to find out :)

I miss LineageOS so much, my last couple of phones haven’t had a build of it and my asshole banking apps wont work on it now.

For my next phone i’m just not going to buy one unless it’s already supported and if I have to skip online banking I’ll do it.

What’s going on with Europe lately? You all really want GOOGLE of all mega corps in control of your identity?

You’re going the opposite way, it should be your right to install an alternate OS on your phone. If anything they should be banning Google licensed Android.