To be clear, your position is that “stupid person walked into the traffic” and “it’s that person fault” are two different things? You grasp the tiniest of straws. (You accused me of ad hominem, look up motte-and-bailey)
But even beside that you miss the point entirely. What I tried yo explain you there was that there was no “into the traffic” there. People didn’t “wonder” on the streets. They were just there. Like today they are on the sidewalk. People were the rule cars were the exception. If electric scooter run into the pedestrian, you don’t defoult into “the pedestrian was likely ignorant”. Imagine scooter manufacturers start to call people involved in the accidents like this something like “loonies” or “zombies” until the legislation that people can walk only directly beside the curb is passed… And 10 years from that somene like you will argue “but skipping across the entire sidewalk is ignorant and careless. Term loonie sounds accurate to me”.
What I tried yo explain you there was that there was no “into the traffic” there. People didn’t “wonder” on the streets.
That is not what you said. What you said was, and I quote “You think: people who wonder on the street are to blame if they are hit.”
If people are not “wandering into the street” then they are not “jaywalking”, are they?
People were the rule cars were the exception.
It doesn’t matter which one is which. The one that is “jay” is the one doing so without any regard for the rules, endangering themselves and other road users.
Imagine scooter manufacturers start to call people involved in the accidents like this something like “loonies” or “zombies”
That would be a completely different use of the word, since neither of these words mean “someone who operates scooters carelessly and without regard for the rules”, as jaywalking does.
You will never convince anyone by gaslighting them into believing you didn’t say things you did (especially where it’s clearly documented) and continually pursuing strawman arguments.
Yes, those are not the same and that’s exactly the point.
2nd one is me trying to understand your perspective and assumimg that you asses the irresponsibility of wondering into trafic must comr from the modern perspective in accordance with modern standards (existing traffic laws and road culture) - reality after PR campaign.
1st one is pointing out that that traffic laws and road culture were different back then, and.we.can’t even talk about “wondering into” traffic anymore than we could talk about “wondering into sidewalk” - reality before PR campaign.
Those two not being the same is the result of PR campaign changing one state of round culture to another by stigmatizing being a pedestrian on the street. That’s the problem we are discussing.
Come on.
(Man, I’m regretting biting after it was obvious this conversation is going nowhere. This time I’m truly out. Feel free to have your last word, but - hopefully - I’ll not address it)
Personally? It was based on things you said. We allready discused it, right? And it was the only thing to.me that made sense. At least than you’d be understandably wrong, instead of stubbornly wrong. If you understand that before the campaign walking on the streets was normal and perfectly leagal and the capaign stigmatized it as a simpletons behavior of irresponsible people, than I honestly don’t understand what is the hill you chose to die on.
To be clear, your position is that “stupid person walked into the traffic” and “it’s that person fault” are two different things? You grasp the tiniest of straws. (You accused me of ad hominem, look up motte-and-bailey)
But even beside that you miss the point entirely. What I tried yo explain you there was that there was no “into the traffic” there. People didn’t “wonder” on the streets. They were just there. Like today they are on the sidewalk. People were the rule cars were the exception. If electric scooter run into the pedestrian, you don’t defoult into “the pedestrian was likely ignorant”. Imagine scooter manufacturers start to call people involved in the accidents like this something like “loonies” or “zombies” until the legislation that people can walk only directly beside the curb is passed… And 10 years from that somene like you will argue “but skipping across the entire sidewalk is ignorant and careless. Term loonie sounds accurate to me”.
Absolutely not. Those are enormous straws…
That is not what you said. What you said was, and I quote “You think: people who wonder on the street are to blame if they are hit.”
If people are not “wandering into the street” then they are not “jaywalking”, are they?
It doesn’t matter which one is which. The one that is “jay” is the one doing so without any regard for the rules, endangering themselves and other road users.
That would be a completely different use of the word, since neither of these words mean “someone who operates scooters carelessly and without regard for the rules”, as jaywalking does.
We are clearly not moving toward convincing eachother to anything even a bit, so let’s stop here. Have a great day, Ulrich.
You will never convince anyone by gaslighting them into believing you didn’t say things you did (especially where it’s clearly documented) and continually pursuing strawman arguments.
Hmm? Now I’m honestly confused. What is the thing I said that I claim I didn’t say?
One of these things is not like the other.
Yes, those are not the same and that’s exactly the point.
2nd one is me trying to understand your perspective and assumimg that you asses the irresponsibility of wondering into trafic must comr from the modern perspective in accordance with modern standards (existing traffic laws and road culture) - reality after PR campaign.
1st one is pointing out that that traffic laws and road culture were different back then, and.we.can’t even talk about “wondering into” traffic anymore than we could talk about “wondering into sidewalk” - reality before PR campaign.
Those two not being the same is the result of PR campaign changing one state of round culture to another by stigmatizing being a pedestrian on the street. That’s the problem we are discussing.
Come on.
(Man, I’m regretting biting after it was obvious this conversation is going nowhere. This time I’m truly out. Feel free to have your last word, but - hopefully - I’ll not address it)
So you’re confused because you made baseless assumptions about me personally? Yeah, that’ll do it.
Personally? It was based on things you said. We allready discused it, right? And it was the only thing to.me that made sense. At least than you’d be understandably wrong, instead of stubbornly wrong. If you understand that before the campaign walking on the streets was normal and perfectly leagal and the capaign stigmatized it as a simpletons behavior of irresponsible people, than I honestly don’t understand what is the hill you chose to die on.