Oracle offered laid-off US employees four weeks’ base salary plus one week per additional year of employment up to 26 weeks as severance, according to an excerpt of internal severance terms viewed by Business Insider.
they need money for thier AI datacenters, they clearly cant afford, so slashing headcount was thier option to free up cash.
Also Oracle switched to so called “unlimited” PTO back in 2017. That means these people aren’t getting any PTO paid out on top of the severance.
In a civilized country, they would not be able to pull such a stunt. They would have to prove economical necessity to fire that many people. And it would be way more expensive: usual rates here are one months’ salaries per year of employment. And they would be forced to actively help finding new jobs for the majority of ex-employees.
US labor laws are 3rd World and suck shit.
Nope. Third world’s are better… actually, third world countries are trying to emulate us labor laws to make the employees easier to fire.
Thankfully the asshole trying to do that here is gone. I’m sure they’ll find someone new to replace her soon though…
They’re very much first world.
Not compared to first world countries.
How is up to 30 weeks of pay bad? About most people would kill for this kind of payout.
In Italy if you get fired (not if you quit voluntarily) it’s mandatory by law to get 75% of salary for 104 weeks (but from the six month it will get reduced by a 3% monthly) plus the severance package is at least 6.9% of the yearly gross salary multiplied by the number of years worked there.
On top of that, most union contracts (97% of workers in the country) increase that amount of money that the company has to pay.
Finally, it’s a bureaucratic mess. You can’t just fire employees with an email sent Friday afternoon and expect to get the offices empty on Monday. In order to fire more than 5 employees over 120 days the company has to get agreement with unions (money incentive to resign; early retirement; higher and/or longer severance pay) and if it’s doesn’t get an agreement within 45 days it will need to get an agreement with the government (another 30 days) where need to pay at least a 5850 euro tax for each fired employee. So from the cuts announcement, workers have at least 2 months of full pay and full work.
The only way to fire employees “American style”, “from today you’re unemployed” in Italy it’s bankruptcy (chapter 7) but proceeds from the liquidation Will be used to pay
First of all very clearly says up to 26 weeks. So I don’t know where you’re getting 30 from. The fact that it’s even shittier for other people doesn’t make this not shitty though.
4 weeks base plus up to 26 additional weeks depending on how long they were employed, which was my reading as well.
4 weeks base pay. Plus up to 26 weeks based off years of service. So a long term employee can get up to 30 weeks of pay. Hell 4 weeks alone is better the 90% of employers.
I think that’s a very generous reading, generosity I don’t think is warranted by this company.
Again it doesn’t matter if other workers have it worse, that’s irrelevant.
Companies like this have always had layoffs and hirings. It’s the eb and flow of business. We have had a great amount of these, but the AI cracks are showing, and a rehiring will happen.
One Rich Asshole Called Larry Ellison
The severance is usually packaged with a waiver that says you’re not going to sue them for unlawful termination. they don’t give you much time to think about it, so if you want to run it by a lawyer then you have to do it fast
Years ago, I took a nearly identical package to a lawyer, who asked if they had been a bad employer, anything actionable, but they’d been great, I was going to miss it badly.
He said it was a pretty standard agreement, better than most get, so if there wasn’t a chance that I would want to sue in the future, it was best to just accept it, and move on.
I suppose it depends on your State, but most I have worked in have “Employment at Will” which they make you sign on the way in - basically means: you can be “let go at any time, for no reason whatsoever.”
The really crappy thing about Oracle doing this like this is that these people are hitting the market with 30,000 other freshly fired Oracle workers all looking for the same kinds of jobs at the same time - in a market where lots of other companies are doing the same.
Interesting, that doesn’t even meet the statutory requirements in Canada, which is 1 week severence+ 1 week in lieu of notice per year of employment. One top of that civil case law will generally add another 2 weeks per year of employment for employees who have been with a company for more than 5 years. There are other factors involved in this however. The whole thing generally tops out at about 20 months, too.
That 1 week in lieu of notice per year of employment must be “a thing” elsewhere, I’ve seen it many times.
By the way, as I read the summary above, Oracle did meet the statuatory requirement in Canada + 3 additional weeks of severance. Not that this is “good” of Oracle, they’re undoubtedly doing the minimum they can get away with - duty to shareholders over employees and all that.
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Last time I had to do this was a startup. We all worked insane hours trying to get the product off the ground but then
- layoffs just short of a year so can save on severance
- unemployment lower than my current mortgage
- paid money to buy out my options in case the company made it, but a couple weeks later they reissued them to zero
I assume this is what happens when you exercise stock options and so it’s better to just look at them and think that they’re interesting and that’s about it
Imagine pouring your years and efforts into making this company the giant it became, and this is how they repay you. I have to imagine it’s gonna be hard to find a new job at the same pay level etc, considering everyone is currently making big cuts to their workforce 🫠
“After careful consideration of Oracle’s current business needs, we have made the decision to eliminate your role as part of a broader organizational change,” copies of layoff notification email viewed by Business Insider stated. “As a result, today is your last working day.”
Oh, and one last thing:
Oracle declined to comment.
What I find vaguely interesting is that the US hasn’t managed to privatize unemployment insurance. I mean it could be made much more inefficient, line the pockets of the billionaires, and be of less use to laid off employees. Doesn’t capitalism demand it be privatized?
Payday loans already do this.
With an average annual percentage rate of 390% - 900% !
Fuck man. Don’t give Elon ideas. They billionaires have already been trying to pay military and TSA wages. We seriously don’t need to continue creeping down this FAFO pathway.
That’s just a savings account isn’t it?
more than i expected. sad, right?
Per WARN Act aren’t they required to provide 60 days to everyone?
Typically, tech companies get around warn through garden leave, meaning you’re employed and paid for 60 days but not able to actually work. Then, at the end of 60 days, warn is posted and severance is distributed. Is that what you’re referring to?
Yes, and no. From my experience it was done slightly differently.
They gave the paycheck for 60 days + additional severance (which was additional 1 month if you signed that you won’t sue) as one lump sum and saying that there’s 3 months severance.
I think the only difference between first two and this month was that I think there was still medical insurance for the 60 days.
Just to the government.
Seeing some of the other companies they compared it to just makes them look even worse… it just means other companies will see this as a way to offer less as well. Gotta meet those industry standards!
Also if you take the severance doesn’t that mean you forfit unemployment? This package is so bad if you only been there a year that i would probably say screw them and take that instead, even if its less than my pay it will definitely be more over the 6 months it’s allowed which is what i thought was one of the main reasons they offer these so the company can avoid the higher rate of contribution to unemployment if enough people claim it.
No severance doesn’t effect your eligibility for unemployment. It does often reduce the number of claims however. Many people live off the severance until in runs out, then claim employment. You can also claim unemployment while still actively receiving severance pay.
Severance is usually tied to a non-disclosure agreement. If they want to enforce them, compensation is usually required in most states.
That’s what I did when I was laid off last February due to Musk.
In some states you can actually work and still draw unemployment. I got a temp job to help fill the gap that unemployment left until I transitioned it into a permanent gig.
yeah I’m not sure how it works in the US if you take the severance you forfeit unemployment but with the way the tech sector currently is I would be in favor of taking the unemployment instead because god damn is it rough out there.
Also not to knock Oracle employees but that place doesn’t have the most glowing reputation for “quality”. that right there might hinder their job search. Unless they go to Amazon. they’ll just hire anyone with a pulse as long as you agree to working on call.
isnt amazon pretty brutal for tech workers, from what ive heard, they will burn you out til you leave
You can take both. And for most tech sector workers, the unemployment payments are tiny compared thier salary. Also the unemployment payments don’t last forever. For anyone with say 10 years at the company, the ttotal unemployment payout would be less than the severance.
Yup, I went from making $8k a month to $2.4k on unemployment.
You definitely take both. Apply for unenjoyment asap because it can take a few weeks for the money to start flowing. Also unenjoyment is much lower than pay, so you can’t expect to pay your bills with it
Paywall.
